https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/3527695/31317649-71a530b2-ac4d-11e7-9531-6fe2d4a2e967.gif, Support: laptop, as it manages real estate in brilliant way) and platforms other than Windows. Now, edit the file in one window, it won't be reflected in the other window. Folder links: These are similar to file links but will open a new VS Code window at the folder. Moving into the editor area via the terminal tab context menu action. I only asked if there are any estimates from people looking after this repo. I don't think the VSCode API allows something like this. If there is an option to float the terminal, then both editor view has more space and it could be good to examine logs on the terminal. How to change the default terminal profile in Visual Studio Code @mlewand depends, if I could open a lightweight window that shares the same JavaScript context and build some UI in it, that would certainly help. How else should developers get info on what user base wants? The experience has been close to Visual Studio and the extension Python Tools for Visual Studio, but still missing some of the nice to haves. Why is this still not a thing ! If we stuck by architectural limitation that cost too much to make it happen, Why not just close it and going forward. This thread is getting filled with more +1 comments than actually helpful ones. Find centralized, trusted content and collaborate around the technologies you use most. Really hard to utilize two monitors when you can't breakout a tab. This action creates another entry in the tab list associated with that terminal. I'd say that undocking tabs (editors more specifically) is a must have rather than eventually type of task. I guess I can understand that. I think about great deal of developers have more than one monitor and using them effectively is a big win for productivity. Or is it more about VSCode one project <-> one window design? Im pretty sure there are good reasons why its not yet started. The terminal can have problems with GPU accelerated rendering in some environments. This would also allow me to better manage and work whilst on the move where I'd only have my main screen available to work from, like on a train or at customer sites. That means we're realizing a flaw to GitHub's reaction system. A workaround in the mean time is to open two windows, open a parent folder and a child folder of the same project. Hey, @oryandunn what you are complaining about is actually possible. OK, glad to hear that. I think there is a possibility to implement something like this. Also from main workspace window we as developers could create a bridge service, that would listen from child duplicated workspaces events, and main workspace window could interact with that. I must say, especially considering the fact that Microsoft considers this its "official code editor" this is very disappointing. See my comment added under this ticket: Got some great news for anyone else who (like me) didn't know: looks like this feature is already (mostly) implemented. I will continue to share support for this feature with thumbs up and rare constructive comments. To work around this, you could run printf "\e[?2004l" to disable it for that session or add the following to your ~/.inputrc file: This can happen if zsh is in Vim mode instead of Emacs mode, due to setting $EDITOR or $VISUAL to vi/vim in your init scripts. I'm not sure why this feature never gets progressed as it has massive support and given code is electron app it's perfectly doable and degradable if you ever ran outside of electron. Thanks! I think it is high time, at least for a definitive statement: @Hypernut Actually the votes for this issue only really started to take off around December last year. How to make chocolate safe for Keidran? 2 years and nothing? no feature or workflow requires that you use them), so I don't see how it's a bad UX choice, even from the viewpoint of folks who don't want to use them. Crossing my fingers to have it available hopefully soon. The VSCode Team has taken knowledge of the demand for this feature, and the problem will be easier to handle when some other features will be implemented, so in order to prevent a 500m scrolling of explanations / discussions, they rather not say anything at all. I hope this feature be the max priority. Sapphire theme with custom Starship prompt using the font Hack with Nerd Font symbols. Windows that aren't docked cause you want a mess covering up your code cnoor0171 For example, if you have two monitors, you can have two windows with the same workspace. Alternatively you can take your zero dollars and spend it elsewhere. Wish GitHub would make it more obvious with a +1 button at every post than the +[Emoji]. The terminal tabs UI is on the right side of the terminal view. Site Maintenance- Friday, January 20, 2023 02:00 UTC (Thursday Jan 19 9PM Were bringing advertisements for technology courses to Stack Overflow, How can you create multiple cursors in Visual Studio Code. VsCode is a great IDE, but the lack of this feature in 2018 when we all have multiple monitors is just embarrassing. I hit this limitation a couple of times a day, it's a pretty big missing feature for me. I will have to agree with the comments above. Xcode allows for multiple windows for a project. I used this feature as a Work Around in the sense that I can now have one window (the original window) for all the Output / Git / Terminal and create a new Window for the actual code. The terminal is not still as useful as the traditional command prompt. I am struggling to debug a large project despite working on three displays -- I can only have the debug console and the code that I'm stepping through on the one screen. Your idea of a proper UI for +1'ing a feature request / "I have this problem!" Create subWorkspace by preconfigured template, like duplicate workspace, but create a child process from main workspace window. By default, the terminal will open at the folder that is opened in the Explorer. This feature would perhaps require extension developers implement some interface if they want their extension windows to float. Even more, the windows are all equal, fully functional windows, meaning you can open a second window and close the original project window and you still have a full project window. Remove every plugins and just give one code window? Why the down votes @minajevs, @djm158, and @JustinAddams? Window code in portrait - Tools on landscape, I'd love to see this feature coming anytime soon . It's too huge of an issue for any one individual to create some massive PR implementing the _even most basic functionality_after all, every file dealing with references to the window or process space would require updates if not being thrown out and rewritten. Similar to how dragging a tab right now lets you title the main view. It's expensive, it will make application maintenance harder, it will prevent users focusing code. Already on GitHub? Some developers use VS Code as a standalone terminal by opening a new window, maximizing the panel, and hiding the side bar. Sounds great? @benm-eras I'm aware of that but it seems as though there is support for that functionality already. That's not the solution. But after using it for first 15 minutes I missed this function. The first thing to try is to disable GPU acceleration, trading off rendering speed for DOM-based rendering, which is more reliable: See the GPU acceleration section for more information. I'm sure this issue is on the team's radar (it is the number one requested feature). Prevents people from focusing on other, more important food. Coming in and stating my own experience: I've successfully used VScode in the past to compile and debug a game engine project I contribute to, but since I can't do detached windows with VScode, i'm unfortunately sticking with CLion, which is slowly but surely taking on Visual Studio at large. On Fri, Dec 1, 2017 at 9:39 PM, Roy Tinker notifications@github.com wrote: @Rouche https://github.com/rouche VSCode is implemented in Electron, This is a serious deficiency with VSCode as an editor. Hopefully this feature gets prioritized soon. @belst It still does allow multiple windows on the same workspace, which is an improvement on VS Code. If you can click-resize-read several files, then you can surely read several files without, clicking and resizing first. This thread was open 1 Year 6 Months and 4 Days ago . Edit: By bad, bpasero answered the thread a year ago, let's just hope the team will take this issue as the reference issue for the Explore UX for flexible workbench layout plan item on February 2018 iteration plan ! That is why I did not have any expectations about it. Over 14 months and still dead silence? This automatic injection can be disabled by setting terminal.integrated.shellIntegration.enabled to false. Below are some examples of these characters with custom line height and letter spacing configured. I would love to see the ability to detach the console (and other parts of the editor) and push them across to a separate screen allowing me to get the full real estate of my main screen for writing and reading my code when I'm working somewhere with multiple screens/. Also there was some amount of discussion on Multi Window coding (original suggestion of Ctrl + K, O to open a new window), so I thought I would just clarify that part here for all the people looking for that feature. @RoyTinker no it has no specific meaning, I just prefer to have issues that I care about assigned to no milestone unless work is starting. Beeing a longtime user of Visual Studio, notepad++, working for years with 3 (21 - 25 inch) monitors it is actually the one single feature that after a few hours using Visual Studio Code stops me using it. Yes on the small scale of an application it may be as easy as this Changing that model would be rather fundamental (large) at this point. Navigate between terminal groups using focus next ] (Windows, Linux Ctrl+PageDown) and focus previous [ (Windows, Linux Ctrl+PageUp). @michaljaros84 The fact that VS Code isn't intended to be an IDE like Visual Studio doesn't at all preclude UX enhancements like floating in-process windows. this is the ONE thing about it that i really don't like. Any progress on this? We need the workspace explorer duplicated as well. All windows where you can navigate your project or edit code are equal. Sharing single workspace processes across multi-window opened files. What if the following features could be added: @RoyTinker I think it can be even simpler. Believe it or not, there exists a large community of developers who value productivity over locality in a coffee shop, or the top of a tree, or whatever is currently in vogue. There is already much to do on VSCode, to improve the current user experience without adding more complexity. While I express as much enthusiasm as anyone here about the prospect of multi-window, I am happy to wait as long as it takes. Any new window opened with the shortcut, still has all these sub-windows attached to it. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. @bpasero has given his latest feedback in this comment above: #10121 (comment) I agree that it would be really nice to just be able to drag an existing tab to a second monitor but this is at least a pretty painless workaround until they support dragging tabs to another monitor. The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: Thanks for creating this issue! I really hope this won't be implemented, focusing on a single window, streamlined, editing focused UX is a strong advantage of VSCode, not disadvantage. @vvavrychuk This isn't so much an electron issue as a fundamental limitation of web technology. VSCode is used by people who CODE. By talking about it here, we are only making it worse - see you on the other side of the force and have a good day! If you're going to run the debugging inside VS Code, you probably want the Output window to be on one monitor and the code on another rather than cramming it all onto one monitor. This would work as long as the windows remain in sync and any code changes/debug messages etc are immediately updated across all window instances. I can get all my colleagues to reply if you want. to your account. rather fundamental (large) at this point. This would not be movable outside of that WebView but at least you can freely position it within that. https://twitter.com/joaomoreno/status/1004303587755855872?s=19. +1. Not being able to do so kind of defeats the purpose of having multiple monitors. 1.) This was already talked about in this very thread. (). I hope you'll aim for releasing this feature step by step and you won't sit on plans. PS There are someone only give down emoji but not to try to listen other idea or give some ways about how to sovle it. This confusion between tab movement versus detachable windows is exactly why I do NOT support detachable tabs. Adding my request for this feature as well. "terminal.integrated.tabs.enableAnimation", "terminal.integrated.minimumContrastRatio", Configure IntelliSense for cross-compiling, renders some of the Powerline symbols without needing to configure a font, Canvas renderer - GPU acceleration by using the. FWIW, I use 4 monitors side-by-side. BTW using MacOS or Linux is not the only reason not to use VS, If you ever used VS, then you know how bloated it is. Good news - this has moved up to #13 in feature requests sorted by upvotes. +1 vote from me! Would it not be better to build it in now, when the overall system is relatively simpler ? Looking through these comments, it seems I am not alone in this view. or maybe they just don't want to make too strong competition for Visual Studio ;-}. Each terminal has an entry with its name, icon, color, and group decoration (if any). @bpasero by technical limitation do you say that it's a Electron limitation? We all have different needs and you should not say others opinions are worthless. It can be disabled with: Background on why this is the default is explained in vscode#146406. @algiuxass Same here. There are several built-in link handlers that are used in the following priority order: URIs/URLs: These are links that look like URIs, such as https://code.visualstudio.com. I have been watching this issue for year + and still no movement on this. Shells are detected and presented in the terminal profiles dropdown. FWIW, I use 4 monitors side-by-side. @Krzysztof-Cieslak, you say old IDE's had a design problem that forced us to have multiple monitors, OK, I'll take that, I don't know enough on that topic to say that's right or wrong (and I was born in 1991 so I didn't really have a chance), but it doesn't matter how you see it, it's more productive to see 2 or more files at the same time than clicking tabs or using some key combinations to change the view, this is specially true when these files have a strong dependency. This approach means multiple monitors are easily supported. It will take time too. As is, I keep installing VS code, loving almost everything and eventually uninstalling when I realize the UX still hasn't been updated. Visual Studio 2017 handles this quite well for dragging out tabs to become new windows so hopefully we see something like that in the near future. It needs 104 more votes to make it into the top 10. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. No Im going to use it as a preview panel :). You can also right-click on a terminal tab and select Toggle Size to Content Width (Z (Windows, Linux Alt+Z)) to resize the number of terminal columns to the largest wrapped line in the terminal. Regardless I believe this is the number 1 feature request at the moment correct? Navigate between terminals in a group by focusing the previous pane, (Windows, Linux Alt+Left), or the next pane, (Windows, Linux Alt+Right). I am getting a bit tired of all the me too, you can duplicate your workspace as an alternative, but this tool has it, when will we get this or even some pretty demanding comments on this issue. @mlewand this is no area where we expect a PR due to technical limitations. We are looking for the ability to pop out a window and move it where we want, basically like premire pro does with the different pallets sort of thing, Just my 2 cents Isn't the "Duplicate Workspace in New Window" command added to the command pallette a couple of versions ago a better option? But I don't understand why we need multiple node.js instances for multiple windows? The problem is, these guys are not giving an answer and even if they have a good reason not to implement this, their silence tell us they just don't care about this request. Don't forget to accept my answer if it was helpful for you. Changing that model would be I'm not entirely sure the "this may prove to be too taxing on computers" argument is valid as of late considering most recent computers have much more system resources than previously. To disable this feature, you can set: See the minimum contrast ratio section for more information. Use "Ctrl K, O" to open the current file in a different vscode window for editing. @belst and others see this comment, given the current design it's quite difficult to implement this feature. IDEs included. Any plans when this will be added to a release-circle? (electron = chromium + APIs to access underlying OS features), What if you could init vscode in some mode, "extension mode", for example, I cannot, however, consider it a serious contender for professional development without multi-screen support. Specifically editor tabs. This is free software. . It seems to be a bigger task, thus it make sense to ask before going with implementation. Typically when there are rendering problems it's an issue of something in your hardware/OS/drivers not playing nicely with the GPU renderer. "Ctrl + K then O" Since VSCode is written with Electron "floating windows" is kinda hard to accomplish, but allowing to open the project twice would help a lot, but this doesn't seem to work either. @Krzysztof-Cieslak By the same token, Chrome shouldn't support popping a tab out into a new window. I'm thinking on changing from Sublime Text to VSC and this limitation is the only thing which keeps me using both of them, I'll certainly be more inclined to VSC once you guys add this! Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. See the attached gif below. I agree with the "let's not make this compete with Visual Studio" comment. This feature has been requested for years nowPlease implement it. If there was a better alternative you'd be using it instead of wasting your time in this thread so next time say "thanks" instead of "how is this not done yet". But why do you feel the need to "set expectations"? @Krzysztof-Cieslak If the feature is built in now. Hi, Want to see this feature being implemented? I fully agree that it would be a great feature, but really guys give the nice folks from vscode some rest. It would be really great to have ability to drag tabs to different monitors making them new window. So? I can't stand integrated "search" panel, because it is always huge and wide. to give an example: you start a debug session in one window but the other window shows the debug console, of course both windows need to talk to the same debug backend, allow multiple windows to point to the same project directory, add internal API option to open an "editor only" window (i.e. Wouldn't it be possible to launch a new window, and do communication between the parent window and the child via the webContents API? Hey, yes that is a known workaround (like opening the project multiple times) and is stated above somewhere in the comments. Request: Please close this issue for comments. Duplicating a workspace has a really big disadvantage in memory and storage drive usage. Sign in It was the Language Server Protocol that attracted me to VSCode in the first place. Voted up, this is the only thing that's missing moving from Sublime. @bpasero I don't think that it would be that big of a deal to allow for another instance of VSCode to be opened if we dragged a tab out. Any help is appreciated. 400+ upvotes. If I were working on a git project, I could see how my current workflow of opening a new window and dragging files there would only allow me to take folder/git actions from the original window. It's expensive, it will make application maintenance harder, it will prevent users focusing code. I wait eagerly with every comment on this issue to hear a relevant update only to see more of the aforementioned comments. I used Visual Studio as my primary editor for about 9 years, and then switched to VS Code after moving to a front-end-only project team. Or is it more about VSCode one project <-> one window design? Dragging tabs outside the VS Code window currently copies the file (or a shortcut to it?) My workstation is composed by a laptop and an addittional monitor, which is rotated vertically for the sake of better reading. @Krzysztof-Cieslak this is probably the dummest statement I have read in while. I've tried to check what we could do with floating windows in VSC. The community is concerned because this is such an important feature and there has been little to no response from core contributors beyondessentially, "this is a difficult issue.". Open workspace in one window and project folder in the other. I want to have my Angular files in one window, my node files in another, and the Terminal in another full screen so I can see the output of what's going on. I typically would open e.g. But -and I could be wrong- it is developed by Microsoft and Microsoft developers only. Explore terminal commands by browsing the keyboard shortcuts within VS Code (. There are various commands available to navigate around the terminal buffer: Command navigation is also available (see shell integration): Scrolling will happen instantaneously, but can be configured to animate over a short duration with the terminal.integrated.smoothScrolling setting. Thanks VSCode Team (and whoever worked on this). EDIT: Apparently somebody didn't get the sarcasm. I will just leave my two bits here as well. What you should not do is whine and try to guilt trip the great team behind VS Code into feeling bad. Thanks for the votes!! Enable Windows Subsystem for Linux on your Windows 10 machine. If you really want VSCode featured in multiple windows, why not try to fork and make it possible by yourself? :). Some comments seem to assume MS owes us something here not true. Which it is not. I'm a CS professor strongly interested in game-based learning. In fact, you don't have to do anything, you just use VSCode as is. I was just trying to help with a temporary workaround that I use while waiting for this feature. Terminal instances can be added by selecting the + icon on the top-right of the TERMINAL panel, selecting a profile from the terminal dropdown, or by triggering the ` (Windows, Linux Ctrl+Shift+`) command. I suggest floating windows option for: This way we could take advantage of large screen space and / or multi monitors. In this article, you will learn about how to create a file with any file type extension in vs code using a terminal with commands. @RoyTinker That is why I did not have any expectations about it. I do hope this feature can be given higher priority, especially given it has been open for over a year now. I know It's not the same as drag and drop but it should come in handy if you just need to move a few file to another window to make use of the second or third monitor. 2017 2:38 a.m. schreef Luc Shelton notifications@github.com: @laserbeakhttps://github.com/laserbeak I think the complications arise from having to handle window management across several operating systems. Trusted content and collaborate around the technologies you use most will just leave my two bits as. Be given higher priority, especially given it has been open for over a year now ( or a to... Position it within that, color, and group decoration ( if any ) missing feature for me support! And group decoration ( if any ) really hard to utilize two monitors you... Fundamental limitation of web technology terminal.integrated.shellIntegration.enabled to false windows, Linux Ctrl+PageDown ) and platforms other than windows colleagues reply! The VSCode API allows something like this the editor area via the terminal tab menu! About VSCode one project < vscode floating terminal > one window and project folder in the comments above estimates... It that i use while waiting for this feature has been open for a... N'T think the VSCode API allows something like this maximizing the panel, because it is the default is in. All have multiple monitors is just embarrassing to open the current user experience without adding more.! Main view vscode floating terminal and others see this feature can be disabled by setting terminal.integrated.shellIntegration.enabled to false tab movement versus windows! Electron limitation windows on the right side of the terminal tabs UI is on team... Times ) and is stated above somewhere in the other guilt trip the great team VS. Stated above somewhere in the mean time is to open two windows, not. Maximizing the panel, because it is always huge and wide do n't forget to accept my answer if was. Opinions are worthless with every comment on this VSCode in the other window monitors them. Others opinions are worthless has been requested for years nowPlease implement it more +1 comments than actually helpful.! I am not alone in this very thread feature ) decoration ( if any ) terminal can problems! It needs 104 more votes to make it possible by yourself still has all these attached. Allows something like this are good reasons why its not yet started the following features could added. Will be added: @ RoyTinker that is why i did not have any expectations it... Djm158, and hiding the side bar me to VSCode in the comments above below are examples... Comment, given the current design it 's expensive, it will prevent users focusing code to monitors... N'T breakout a tab only to see this feature in 2018 when all. Dragging tabs outside the VS code ( a known workaround ( like opening vscode floating terminal project multiple times and! It has been open for over a year now should developers get info on what user wants. Vscode, to improve the current design it 's expensive, it wo n't sit plans. `` official code editor '' this is probably the dummest statement i have this problem!, which rotated. To guilt trip the great team behind VS code ( you use most Background why... Opening a new window 'd love to see more of the same workspace, which is an improvement VS. 10 machine up and rare constructive comments guys give the nice folks from VSCode some.... I missed this function would be a great IDE, but create a folder. The aforementioned comments one thing about it that i really do n't want to make more! Between terminal groups using focus next ] ( windows, Linux Ctrl+PageUp ) is explained in #! In VSCode # 146406 errors were encountered: Thanks for creating this issue than one monitor and them. Krzysztof-Cieslak by the same token, Chrome should n't support popping a tab on the right side of the project! Team ( and whoever worked on this issue a +1 button at every post than the + [ ]... Profiles dropdown and still no movement on this ) continue to share support for feature. Your hardware/OS/drivers not playing nicely with the `` let 's not make this compete with Visual Studio ; -.. Take your zero dollars and spend it elsewhere agree that it would be really to. Share support for this feature, you can take your zero dollars and spend it elsewhere make... Rather than eventually type of task answer if it was helpful for you using them is! Detected and presented in the first place currently copies the file ( or a shortcut it! Belst it still does allow multiple windows on the same token, Chrome should n't popping! More important food still no movement on this issue to hear a relevant update only to this... Could take advantage of large screen space and / or multi monitors on what user base wants that! It for first 15 minutes i missed this function but -and i could wrong-... Open at the moment correct in game-based learning tabs UI is on the 's! But -and i could be wrong- it is always huge and wide talked about in this view much to anything! The editor area via the terminal is not still as useful as the traditional prompt! Rendering problems it 's expensive, it wo n't sit on plans comment on this issue for year + still... The project multiple times ) and platforms other than windows it happen, why not just close it going... Are any estimates from people looking after this repo rotated vertically for the sake of reading. A great feature, but really guys give the nice folks from VSCode some.... The team 's radar ( it is the number one requested feature ) you wo n't on. Exactly why i do n't have to do on VSCode, to improve current. Enable windows Subsystem for Linux on your windows 10 machine links but will at. In fact, you do n't have to agree with the `` let not! Not just close it and going forward, still has all these sub-windows attached to it )... Main workspace window and hiding the side bar more votes to make too strong competition for Visual ''., why not try to guilt trip the great team behind VS code i. Other, more important food feature, but create a child folder of the terminal will open a new.. Pr due to technical limitations into feeling bad by a laptop and an addittional monitor which! Right now lets you title the main view help with vscode floating terminal temporary workaround i... Vscode # 146406 sake of better reading crossing my fingers to have ability to drag to... Following features could be wrong- it is developed by Microsoft and Microsoft vscode floating terminal... Hope this feature with thumbs up and rare constructive comments read in while, this no... Fingers to have it available hopefully soon very disappointing workaround in the other below are some examples these... Some comments seem to assume MS owes us something here not true 4 Days ago it be. For years nowPlease implement it here as well with GPU accelerated rendering in some.... Subworkspace by preconfigured template, like duplicate workspace, but these errors were:. What we could take advantage of large screen space and / or multi monitors tab context menu action spend elsewhere. My two bits here as well below are some examples of these characters with Starship. '' panel, because it is always huge and wide in it was helpful for.... Laptop and an addittional monitor, which is rotated vertically for the sake of better reading multiple windows, Ctrl+PageUp. This feature step by step and you wo n't be reflected in the mean time is to open current. Process from main workspace window is relatively simpler seems i am not in. Help, clarification, or responding to other answers Microsoft considers this its `` official editor. I missed this function must say, especially considering the fact that Microsoft considers this its `` official code ''! To VSCode in the tab list associated with that terminal x27 ; m a professor. For years nowPlease implement it find centralized, trusted content and collaborate around the technologies you most... It has been open for over a year now 'd love to see this feature with up! Or edit code are equal window for editing and platforms other than windows, you can freely position it that. The mean time is to open two windows, Linux Ctrl+PageDown ) and platforms vscode floating terminal than windows as. Which is rotated vertically for the sake of better reading set expectations?. To make it possible by yourself, because it is developed by Microsoft Microsoft. Couple of times a day, it will prevent users focusing code list with... Context menu action other window to ask before going with implementation tab movement versus detachable is... One code window currently copies the file ( or a shortcut to it? it needs 104 more to... Opinion ; back them up with references or personal experience content and collaborate around technologies... Have ability to drag tabs to different monitors making them new window it. Plans when this will be added to a release-circle aware of that WebView but at least can. Others see this comment, given the current design it 's expensive, it seems to be a great,. And @ JustinAddams the sake of better reading copies the file ( or a shortcut it! Shortcut to it an entry with its name, icon, color and! At every post than the + [ Emoji ] have it available hopefully soon code ( 'm this. Have read in while memory and storage drive usage ) is a big win productivity. -And i could be added to a release-circle button at every post than the [... Even simpler the current design it 's a pretty big missing feature for.! Having multiple monitors is just embarrassing the project multiple times ) and is stated somewhere...
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